Flaked Rye VS. Regular Rye ?

[Fritz Eye]

I almost have a standard malt bill for RYE PA that I like as follows:

9 lb Maris Otter
2 lbs Rye
8 oz Crystal Rye aprox. 60L
8 oz C 20 or 40

I found some Flaked Rye on the shelf of my LHBS and bought pound. Any input on it's characteristics?
Mash techniques etc.
I will do some researching on Google but that I would start out at the top with The BN forum.
Cheers.
Fritz

[BDawg]

Flaked Rye in Fritz's Eye! Sounds like a good name for this beer to me, Fritz!

Flaked rye is rolled unmalted rye -- completely analogous to flaked wheat or flaked oats (oatmeal) or flaked barley.
The rolling process heats up the starches enough to gelatinize them (ie, make them soluable in water). The flaking process pretty much
denatures any enzymes that were in the grain (not that an unmalted grain has very much DP to speak of anyways), so you must mash it in
the presence of another malt with enough DP to convert both. The protein and gluten content of flaked grains is higher than malted grains, and that is a major reason flaked grains improve head retention and body. They are typically just thrown in with the rest of the mash, though you don't need to run them through the mill. Just mix them in later. I usually keep flaked grains separated out of the milled mix, and add them to the grist as i'm doughing in, in small batches partway through (so add milled, stir in some flaked, more milled, rest of flaked, rest of milled). That's just to help distribute them a little better. I don't mill them because they sometimes can clog up the mill and they are already smashed up.

Malted rye was sprouted, etc, just like your other base malts. The enzyme profile is developed and the malt has plenty of diastatic power to convert itself and other starches (assuming base-malt kilning characteristics are applied -- we are not talking about chocolate rye malt here, just base rye malt). The malty flavors that come out of malting and kilning are developed, too, whereas in flaked versions they are more bland.

So, in a nutshell-

flakey -> nice head and body, will add fermentables but cannot convert itself. Will contribute somewhat to the flavor but not as much as malt.
malted-> more fermentables, more flavors, can convert other starches, and the protein content is lower with typically shorter chain proteins, but the actual amount of protein is highly dependent on how well modified the malt was (ie, degree of malting -- how long did the shoot get).

HTH-

[spiderwrangler]

Using flaked rye is going to be similar to using flaked barley, wheat or oats, they are pre-gelatinized so starches are exposed but not converted, so you do want to mash it... Rice hulls may be helpful if you think you may run into stuck sparge issues.

[Fritz Eye]

Flaked Rye in Fritz's Eye! Sounds like a good name for this beer to me, Fritz!

Flaked rye is rolled unmalted rye -- completely analogous to flaked wheat or flaked oats (oatmeal) or flaked barley.
The rolling process heats up the starches enough to gelatinize them (ie, make them soluable in water). The flaking process pretty much
denatures any enzymes that were in the grain (not that an unmalted grain has very much DP to speak of anyways), so you must mash it in
the presence of another malt with enough DP to convert both. The protein and gluten content of flaked grains is higher than malted grains, and that is a major reason flaked grains improve head retention and body. They are typically just thrown in with the rest of the mash, though you don't need to run them through the mill. Just mix them in later. I usually keep flaked grains separated out of the milled mix, and add them to the grist as i'm doughing in, in small batches partway through (so add milled, stir in some flaked, more milled, rest of flaked, rest of milled). That's just to help distribute them a little better. I don't mill them because they sometimes can clog up the mill and they are already smashed up.

Malted rye was sprouted, etc, just like your other base malts. The enzyme profile is developed and the malt has plenty of diastatic power to convert itself and other starches (assuming base-malt kilning characteristics are applied -- we are not talking about chocolate rye malt here, just base rye malt). The malty flavors that come out of malting and kilning are developed, too, whereas in flaked versions they are more bland.

So, in a nutshell-

flakey -> nice head and body, will add fermentables but cannot convert itself. Will contribute somewhat to the flavor but not as much as malt.
malted-> more fermentables, more flavors, can convert other starches, and the protein content is lower with typically shorter chain proteins, but the actual amount of protein is highly dependent on how well modified the malt was (ie, degree of malting -- how long did the shoot get).

HTH-

I will have to start calling you Professor BDawg, great reply and also a great name, especially since I am a bit of a flake myself to begin with.
Thanks so much.

[mabrungard]

The Rye Master, Denny Conn, just posted his thoughts on a similar subject a few weeks ago on another forum.

As Bdawg commented and Denny confirms, malted rye wil provide more flavor and spice than the flaked rye.