New Brewer in Chicagoland with bad beer batch question

[driftwood]

My brother and I have been extract brewing and bottling for over a year with mixed success. I recently found this website and really enjoy listening to the mp3 archives. I've already learned a lot so far and hope to keep learning more and eventually move up to a kegging system. We just bottled a swartzbier, an octoberfest, and a hone brown ale-- those bottles are a pain in the butt. I think kegging will make the whole process more enjoyable.

Tonight I just tried a Northern Brewer Christmas ale extract kit we made (yes we made it a little late). It poured great-- the color was good, good head, and a great aroma. But it tasted almost like water-- thin and fizzy with absolutely no body. It had no off flavors and seemed very clean tasting. It was just literally as thin as water with almost no taste other than the cinammon spice. I'm curious what would cause this? Maybe a wild yeast fermented out the body and taste, but wondered what other members thought. Could it be sanitation, or would that lead to more of an off flavor/bad beer taste, rather than just no body and taste?

One mistake we might be making is that when we are chilling the wort with the copper tubing we are stirring the wort with the lid off to help it cool faster. I'm wondering if we're better off to just leave the lid on and let the water run through the tubing until it's cool. It might take longer, but maybe the wort won't be as wide open to the air.

Thanks for any input.
Andy
Brookfield IL

[valorian]

First, I want to say welcome to the forum.

Second, Are you guys doing a full boil or do you boil 2-3 gallons and top up with water after the boil? Doing a partial boil and topping up can make the finished beer seem thin. You would definitely know if wild yeast got into your beer. It would have a very noticable off flavor, almost bandade like. You should cool your wort with the lid on. This will lesson the chance of contamination during the cooling process. I even leave the lib on while transfering to my carboy. If you want to add some body to your beer you can try adding Dextrin Malt (aka Carapils) or Maltodextrin. these will add unfermentable sugars to help add body.

Good to see another person from Illinois on the forum.

[driftwood]

Thanks for the advice. We're doing a full boil and a mini mash. But this one was amazingly thin and tasteless-- more than just the difference between extract and full grain. Who knows-- maybe we'll give dextrin a try next batch. I've never used it but heard it can help give mouth feel.

Thanks-

[bub]

how long has it been in the bottle... some early signs of infection can be similar to what you are describing as bacteria or whatever start the process of fucking up the beer... If it is an infection you will notice it change significantly over time... keep 1 bottle warm for a couple of weeks and try again... you will know by then
Brian

[Hammy2424]

Andy,

Welcome to the forum. I am pretty new here as well. If you are really nice BUB will give you a proper welcome as you are in IL.

I have brewed the same kit as well, I have a couple of ideas. First it is a pretty light ale to start with as it has an OG of 1030. Mine actually came to 1035 but I also partial boiled and that could easily be a hydrometer annomally.

And that would come to my second thought. How did you steep your specialty grain? Though I am spitballing here, I steeped my grain at 150-155 F for about 35 minutes before ramping up for my boil. The Simpsons Dark Crystal that is included in the kit will provide body, but I believe you need to essentially mini mash it to get that body.

Somebody with a bit more overall experience may have some more thoughts. Just my $0.02.

[driftwood]

Thanks for the feedback. We mashed the specialty grains at 155 for about 45 minutes, and then put them in a strainer and rinsed using the brew pot water, which we had sitting at around 170. Then we ramped up the heat on the brew pot and proceeded from there. Is it ok to just dip in the brewpot with a ladle and keep sparging the grains with the same water? Or should I be heating a separate pot of water at 180 for the sparge? I guess I was just being lazy (I prefer clever) by heating my brew pot to 170 for the sparge, and then proceding from there.

It probably is some kind of infection. I wasn't sure if an infection always gives an off taste or funny odor, or if it can sometimes just lead to a thinning out of the beer. I thought of a better description today-- it tasted like drinking 7-Up or tonic water. Just fizzy and clear with absolutely no body or taste. I'll leave a few warm and try it again in a few weeks to see if it has changed for the worse. Although it's so bad right now, I'll probably just pour it out.

Here's another quick question-- how vigorous do you want the boil? Should it be kind of burping and bubbling, or should it be going crazy like a witch's cauldron? And does using extract at all reduce the importance of the boil temperature itself?

Tonight I had a Goose Island Double IPA-- that's pretty good actually. Another off topic question-- is anyone going to Three Floyd's Dark Lord day, and if so how early do you need to get there to get in line? I was thinking maybe 10am since they open the doors at noon? I've never tried Dark Lord, but my brother loves imperial stouts, so we're hoping to make it.

Later-
Andy

[bub]

The boil depends... burping and bubbling is enough... the wicked boil may boil off too much water, may not, depends...
Your process sounds ok for specialty grains... although that process won't do much as far as fermentables if you don't have any grain with diastatic power in there (Munich, Vienna, pale, marris otter, etc.)
Get in line early, I heard the line started at 9am last year and they were sold out by 2p. I could be full of shit though.
BUB

[driftwood]

9am-- I can believe it. It's not too bad of a drive for me, so I guess I'll go check it out. I'm typically disappointed when I finally get to check out something that has a lot of hype (beers, movies, etc.), so hopefully it will be worth the trip.

I just starting listening to the BN-- have these West Coast guys tried Three Floyd's? I know there are a lot of hop heads out there, so I'm curious if they would like Alpha King or Dreadnaught. I think you just can't beat Dreadnaught at tap at their brewpub. But maybe that's just because I haven't made a killer homebrew yet....