BN AHA CLUB OF THE YEAR!

[BeerPal]

I can write QUAFF or DOZE or whatever I want on an entry sheet without being a member.

Ummm, no you can't. I mean you can write the words but it doesn't make you a member.

Just because it isn't exactly like what your club is does not make it "no club at all".

You can invent definitions for words all you want, but I know, you know, we all know (deep inside) that TBN isn't really a club.

[JohnF]

What if I live 1000 miles away from where a club meets and pay the membership dues? 3000 miles away?

What if two clubs make an agreement to all enter under one club's name one year and the other the next?

What if someone enters all year as club X and switches affiliation to club Y for NHC?

How strict is the definition of "real club"?

It's easy to say what a club isn't, it is harder to say what it is.

Let's say your primary residence must be within 20 miles of a fixed meeting location. How many points does DOZE lose?

[BeerPal]

What if I live 1000 miles away from where a club meets and pay the membership dues? 3000 miles away?

What if two clubs make an agreement to all enter under one club's name one year and the other the next?

What if someone enters all year as club X and switches affiliation to club Y for NHC?

How strict is the definition of "real club"?

It's easy to say what a club isn't, it is harder to say what it is.

Let's say your primary residence must be within 20 miles of a fixed meeting location. How many points does DOZE lose?

Oh, puh-leez. It doesn't matter where you live. If you want to drive 1000 miles to attend a club meeting, go for it! You're in the club! Except nobody is driving anywhere to attend TBN meetings, because there aren't any! The generally accepted definition of a "club" is a group that meets regularly for a common purpose. Typically, that group would be comprised of people who are relatively local to each other. There are more strict legal definitions of what comprises a club, but even casting those aside, TBN doesn't qualify by any stretch of the imagination. TBN exists as a club only because the AHA rules do not yet prohibit it.

[rbowser]

Thought I would post a follow up.

- I do agree that the BN has done a ton for home brewing. I support the BN without question. For example, it is unlikely that I would have ever gone to the NHC if not for Jamil and others always saying it is the year's best beer event. I have learned a ton from the BN and the Sunday show keeps me interested in the hobby.

- It benefits brewing and the AHA greatly to have the BN around as well as many of the sponsors (Brewing TV is a testimony to Justin's success).

- I do think the BN is different from a home brew club in a couple of key ways. A club is a group of members who all decide what to do with the club, generally live local to each other, and physically meet every month. The BN is a broadcast medium that encourages its members to build a community mostly through social media (although I always hit the BNA). In general a club is a non-profit group and the BN is a company (with a lot of volunteers).

- More importantly, a lot of people, perceive the BN as not a home brew club. You can see a discussion here on this topic at Home brew talk that runs for 10 or so pages -
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f20/2011-sa ... dex32.html

I just think it would be smart to not piss off the overall home brew world and graciously bow out of the overall club running. Yes, we could win each year but the end result would just be bad press for the BN (and some tension between the AHA's interests to support the BN and some of their due paying members). I don't see an upside.

But, just a suggestion I had and did not know how else to put it forward. Appreciate everyone else's comments. Nice to hear all sides.

[JohnF]

What if I live 1000 miles away from where a club meets and pay the membership dues? 3000 miles away?

What if two clubs make an agreement to all enter under one club's name one year and the other the next?

What if someone enters all year as club X and switches affiliation to club Y for NHC?

How strict is the definition of "real club"?

It's easy to say what a club isn't, it is harder to say what it is.

Let's say your primary residence must be within 20 miles of a fixed meeting location. How many points does DOZE lose?

Oh, puh-leez. It doesn't matter where you live. If you want to drive 1000 miles to attend a club meeting, go for it! You're in the club! Except nobody is driving anywhere to attend TBN meetings, because there aren't any! The generally accepted definition of a "club" is a group that meets regularly for a common purpose. Typically, that group would be comprised of people who are relatively local to each other. There are more strict legal definitions of what comprises a club, but even casting those aside, TBN doesn't qualify by any stretch of the imagination. TBN exists as a club only because the AHA rules do not yet prohibit it.

BTW, I love how you are all "the spirit of competition is everything" on this issue and were the guy smugly trying to break all of the rules on BYOB TV. Somehow doesn't add up. Maybe they just made you look that way in editing or something.

[BeerPal]

What if I live 1000 miles away from where a club meets and pay the membership dues? 3000 miles away?

What if two clubs make an agreement to all enter under one club's name one year and the other the next?

What if someone enters all year as club X and switches affiliation to club Y for NHC?

How strict is the definition of "real club"?

It's easy to say what a club isn't, it is harder to say what it is.

Let's say your primary residence must be within 20 miles of a fixed meeting location. How many points does DOZE lose?

Oh, puh-leez. It doesn't matter where you live. If you want to drive 1000 miles to attend a club meeting, go for it! You're in the club! Except nobody is driving anywhere to attend TBN meetings, because there aren't any! The generally accepted definition of a "club" is a group that meets regularly for a common purpose. Typically, that group would be comprised of people who are relatively local to each other. There are more strict legal definitions of what comprises a club, but even casting those aside, TBN doesn't qualify by any stretch of the imagination. TBN exists as a club only because the AHA rules do not yet prohibit it.

BTW, I love how you are all "the spirit of competition is everything" on this issue and were the guy smugly trying to break all of the rules on BYOB TV. Somehow doesn't add up. Maybe they just made you look that way in editing or something.

I didn't try to break any rules on the show, sport. Anything my team did was absolutely within the very loosely defined "rules" of the show (well, mostly, anyway ) Plus, all that stuff was played-up because it made for good TV. We were, in fact, encouraged to do it. Further, your point is not well taken since I never accused you or TBN of breaking any rules. In fact, I specifically pointed out that your "club" was within the current AHA rules.

Nice try, pal. The more you argue your case, the weaker it appears.

But hey, thanks for watching!

[Henning1966]

Horse shit. There is dues paid in donations. There are plenty that live close to each other and there is one physical meeting a year its called the anniversary party.

P.S. beerpal go run down to jps house and trade suck its you will feel better.

[BeerPal]

Jeezus, no offense Henning, but can any of you guys put forth an argument for your position that isn't complete bullshit?

1.- Donations to support TBN- the internet radio show and its associated forum are not dues for TBN- the homebrew club. Donations are voluntary, dues are not. Further, not all TBN "club members" make donations. Neither is it specified anywhere that the donations Justin receives are anything but that; donations to TBN. Nothing about them also being homebrew club dues. If they are, I want every penny I've ever donated back. I didn't sign up to support a competing club.

2.- The annual party hosted by TBN is just that; a party. A roving yearly birthday party for TBN hardly qualifies as "regular meetings". Get a lot of club business taken care of at BNA6, didja?

All you guys have is rationalization. Every point you attempt to make is easily (and instantly) refutable. You got no argument, and you know it. You got no club, and you know that too.

Anyway, that's my $.02.