comp scoring question

[seanhagerty]

I have judged in several comps, but by no means am very experienced as a judge.

I have noticed a willingness of judges to not go above a score of 40 when judging a beer. One very experience BJCP judge (dont know his level) told me a beer was a perfect example of the style and when he thought of that style, he pictured this beer in his mind; yet he still only gave it a 38. I have heard explained that those final ten points are for national level beers. I have to admit, I havent read every word of the BJCP instructions to judges, but this just doesnt sound right. If you have a scale that goes to 50, why not use the full range?

Can anyone lend some insight into this thought process?

Sean

[dmtaylor]

Every judge seems to have their own variant, right or wrong, of what is acceptable to do and what isn't. I am a somewhat experienced Recognized level BJCP judge. I have scored beers as low as 13 and as high as 46, and everything in between. I say call it what it is. If others don't, *I* think they're very poor judges and full of shit. But, my opinion is also only worth about 2 cents so I tend to keep my mouth shut, unless they're sitting at my table and insisting that we be within 4 points of each other, then I raise hell. We each need to feel comfortable to do what we think is right in our own minds, while being open-minded enough to listen to reason if we are being unreasonable. If a judge is a stubborn old fool, I say you have a responsibility as a fellow judge to call him on it, dig in your heels, and enjoy the ride, if you can hang on.

[Bugeater]

In my limited experience as a steward and judge in a number of competitions I have never seen this hard line taken on "no beers over 40". Each panel that I have been on starts with a commercial calibration beer where we fill out a sheet and discuss how we scored it so we are all in agreement on how we want to score the beers. Some panels will score the same beer higher (or lower) than other panels with the same beer. As long as there is agreement within the panel on how the scoring will go the actual numerical score is not of utmost importance. The beers will be scored against each other.

That said, judges do need to pay close attention to the guidelines so that the scores awarded to do not widely vary from what another panel might give. This gives the brewer a good idea of overall quality of the brew rather than just how it scored against the competition that day. I find it frustrating (as happened to me last winter) when a beer of mine scores a 41 in one competition and only a 27 in another 2 weeks later. This indicates a problem with one of those panels of judges. In this case, that beer did score a 38 in the next competition.

Wayne

[BDawg]

I've never heard a "no scores over X" either. Yes, I've heard "No scores BELOW Y" (with Y being 13, 19 or 20).

I've scored them as low as 13 and as high as 46.

[tavish2]

I've never heard a "no scores over X" either. Yes, I've heard "No scores BELOW Y" (with Y being 13, 19 or 20).

I've scored them as low as 13 and as high as 46.

I have heard the same thing (a at a few of the same events) that its a courtesy to not score below a certain level. I think the main idea is you should be able to find at least 10 points in any beer out of 50. like if they have it carbonated and its the right color, thats probably worth 4 points right there But as far as a max i say thats some major BS. If a beer is that awesome, it should be declared as such with the points. The last competition that I judged in, I had the chance to judge with a national level bjcp judge and we had a beer that took third in the BOS round and we both gave the beer scores in the mid 40's. The beer deserved it so we awarded the points. Its not about the size of the competion, but the quality of the beer that should determine points. </soapbox>

[Mylo]

I also have very limited judging experience, but I would intuitively think that it is very hard to have a beer over 45, or lower than 5. The bell curve of scores really means that only a very, very few beers that you will ever judge will be in those ranges. I'm OK with that. What I am not OK with is the unwillingness to go anywhere near the lower range (ie. less than 13). Like BDawg, I have heard other judges say something to the effect of "it's not THAT bad" or "no beer deserves a score that low - it's demoralizing". Cry me a river...

It's the same problem I have with rating employee performance on a 5 point scale. The scale is not granular enough, and the general feeling is that if you score a 2 or lower, than you are going to be immediately fired. In the beer world - the feeling is that somebody might stop brewing or stop entering competitions. Oh well. I think that honesty is the best policy. Reward the good brewers, and penalize the bad brewers.

If you enter a beer that tastes like it's been filtered through Shu Lite's sweaty banana hammock - you should be given the score you deserve - not some inflated non-score that won't hurt your Shaungina.


Mylo

[Otter]

I'm not a judge, mainly because my palate sucks and I have no idea what I'm tasting. Poor education is probably my problem.

However, I have been a steward in the past and I've entered a few beers in local competitions. I've had mixed experiences on both. The last competition that I stewarded, the head judge gave out instructions to the group. He said, "... scores go from 0 to 50, but we won't see any that high." As it turns out, I don't think any beer in that competition got over a 40, out of around 250 entries.

I have also seen judges up their scores to just be within 3 points of the other judges. They'll say, "well, I can give it another point or two here to get closer to your score." As I look at the score sheets, I see that there will be no particular faults listed in a category, yet the judge deducted several points.

I haven't been to enough competitions to know if this is normal. It's just stuff I've noticed.

[ApresSkiBrewer]

If you enter a beer that tastes like it's been filtered through Shu Lite's sweaty banana hammock - you should be given the score you deserve [. . .]

Mylo

So, you're saying it should score 41+?